Wednesday, September 17, 2008

Hine Mizushima Interview and Giveaway

The second I saw one of Hine's pieces I immediately gasped and smiled. When I asked her to be in my button book and she said yes, I immediately gasped and clapped my hands. The second I read that she had also applied to Plush You! I gasped and jumped up and down. Her work is simply amazing. She is one of those people I think a lot of people are watching and on the edge of their seat wondering what she is going to come up with next. I really enjoyed interviewing her and hope you enjoy reading it. Leave a comment here with contact info for your chance to win one of her amazing camera camera cases!



S- For those Plush You readers who might not know who you are, can you give us a
little background information on you

HM- Hello! My name is Hine (pronounced [hee-neh]) Mizushima. I was born and raised in Japan. I majored in Japanese traditional paintings at an art university, and worked as a designer/Illustrator for paper products in Tokyo. Then after I met my husband, we decided to move to Rome, then Paris, then NY. And two years ago we moved to Vancouver, Canada with our lovely son, and at the same time my creative life was completely changed! I was always just an Illustrator, but now I'm a PSMAVA (Puppet-Stop-Motion-Animation-Video-Artist) and a (slow) crafter as well, and I just LOVE to make things..



S- You have had various bouts of fame, with your video for They Might Be Giants, to your plush creations making the rounds on various craft sites. Why did you decide to get into plush work?

HM- I've never thought of getting into plush work before. I didn't even know what "plush" meant! But when I started to work on the second stop-motion music video for a They Might Be Giants kids DVD a year and a half ago, the wife of one of the band members, Robin, who is a talented musician and also a super crafter, made some great needle-felted number-shaped puppets for the video. So I wanted/needed to make other characters and the props with the same materials to go with them. That was the beginning. It was actually a lot of fun and easy to create 3D stuff with felting wool! Since then, I have been getting into plush work little by little. My plush always has wire inside, so you can pose them however you want!



S- How did you start working with They Might Be Giants?

HM- First of all, I have to say that I REALLY love their music! One day, I stumbled upon 'How to make stop-motion video with your digital camera and iMovie' on the Internet. So I made a video with tiny puppets for their music, just for fun. Then I tried to post it on their My Space page, but I didn't understand how it works. Then I found 'send message' button instead, so I simply sent them the link of my video. Then a few days later, they contacted me, asking me to work on a video project with them! I REALLY freaked out, of course.... I'm working on a different project with them now.



S- Do you favor any medium over another?

HM- Felt, felting wool, wool yarn and printed fabric. I also like matt color paper and printed paper.



S- How often do you try to make new products?

HM- I don't have any scheduled plan, but I always have new ideas in my head and on my sketch book. So if I have time, I try to give my ideas shape. But usually it doesn't work well at first time. So I let it sit, wait until it's ripe, and then try again.



S- Your camera camera cases and Phone iPhone cases are amazing! How fast did those sell out? How do you market your new products?

HM- Thanks! Usually those sell out in a few hours. But it probably wouldn't happen if I could just list more items on my Etsy store on a regular basis! And I'm ashamed to say I don't market now. But I often upload pictures of my new products and artwork on my Flickr page, and actually many customers come to my Etsy store from there and end up buying. And fortunately many people write about my cases on their websites and blogs. It helps me a lot, and I really appreciate that :)



S- Your attention to detail is impeccable. Has this come with a lot of practice or have you always been a perfectionist?

HM- Umm...., if you could see my desk (aka chaos), you would not think I'm a perfectionist! Recently I just happened to find a hand-sewn felt camera case which I made once for my camera 4 or 5 years ago. I was so surprised because it was so ridiculously bad! So it seems I'm getting better now. I always like to make small things. I think it is in my blood from my mother.



S- If you could spend more time on one thing, what do you think you would spend it on?

HM- Creating the same more plush dolls in the series that I made for the Plush You show, and making a short stop-motion video with them, or .... cleaning my desk?



S- What do you want to see for your business in the next few years?

HM- I would love to have a solo show and publish a book of my artwork, and while I have had a few series of zakka produced in Japan, I would love to be able to do the same thing in outside of Japan. But first, I have to make more pieces!



S- Any place folks can find you other than your etsy shop?

HM- My artwork website
My Flickr
My blog (in Japanese!)
You can also watch one of my videos, "The Secret Life Of Six" with many plush (puppets) for TMBG kids music here (my actual video starts at the 1:00 mark) here

Don't forget, Leave a comment here with contact info for your chance to win one of her amazing camera camera cases!. Leave your favorite colors too! Winner will be chosen on Sept. 30th.

122 comments:

Oanhderbread said...

yay! baby pink and lime green are a great combination ;] the case is adorable ^^

lil_oanh@yahoo.com

Henry said...

love it! my camera is naked right now, too. i lost my camera bag! I am loving gray and yellow combined lately.

dollsforfriends said...

Hooray, it's a giveaway! Would absolutely love a chocolate brown and blue bag. Hine's work is fantastic, something to aspire to!

jill@dollsforfriends.com

jadeybeans said...

Hine, your work is so adorable, and I love your blog (though I can only appreciate the pictures). If I could win that camera case, I'd love one with bright colours like green, orange and yellow (though I'd happily trade for one of your squid plushes, I love squids/octopi).
-Jade
tmbg.jade@yahoo.com

JW said...

Hine, I have been a fan of yours for a long time and I have seen your animation and I think it's amazing! You are awesome and thank you so much plush you for this chance to win this giveaway :) You are both inspirational.

torvicsing@yahoo.com

.girl ferment. said...

wow such scope to your work.
my fave colours are red, brown, yellow, grey.
xx

squirrel momma said...

Your work is a huge inspiration to me--your attention to detail, along with your skill at combining colors, is amazing! (And I love the lilac case with orange and chocolate trim that was in your shop recently...)

monsterofmud said...

I am a huge fan of Hine's "With the Dark" video! It was so great being able to read about her background, and specifically how she connected with TMBG in a working relationship.

I'd love to have a black/grey camera case in her style!

Eva said...

I love Hine's camera cases, that's how I stumbled upon her work through them. I'd love to be the owner of one :D

ekrzemin(at)yahoo(dot)com

Lindsay said...

I'm so happy to see that Hine is getting interviewed and getting the blog respect she deserves! haha! I've been reading (er, looking, I can't read Japanese) at your tmbgblog since High School.

Your work has always been very adorable and inspirational. I am a artist (painter, printmaker) and a huge They Might Be Giants fan as well, so seeing your work always warms my heart so much.
Seeing your stuff makes me hope that maybe someday I will learn to felt. It looks super fun. (I can crochet, that's getting closer, right? )

Wonderful interview. Wonderful Work. Go HINE! :D

Linnry@gmail.com

Phaedra said...

Those are some fantastic puppets. I really enjoy the stop-motion videos. I've been making puppets for over a year now and am going to have to look up some How to's. I'm also looking to a video editor, you've shown me great things today.

Thanks!

And since I can't resist contests, Greens are my favorite colors.

unseenoyster@yahoo.com

Cathie T said...

I've been a photographer for many many years and have never come across any characters--felt or otherwise--that depict a woman with camera gear. It's always portrayed as a man's activity. You can understand, then, why I love your felt woman with the three serious looking cameras. Very cool.

Oh, and how I love squid and slugs and...man, I feel like you found my wish list and started checking off items one by one.

Can't wait to see your work at Plush You.

cathie@cathiet.com
www.cathiet.com

Unknown said...

Hine I love your work! I also like the colors orange green and blue!

bterrio@student.stonehill.edu

Unknown said...

Hine,
As you know, I am a great fan of your work, you are a creative genius and a true artist! All your color combinations are great! I look forward to following your work and if you publish I book I will certainly buy it!

Pam

listeningmoth said...

Aaaahh, I love They Might Be Giants, and especially enjoyed the Secret Life of Six, since stop-motion is a love of mine. My kids have watched that hundreds of times. Very exciting to learn more about its creator!

I like greens and browns.

lauraseale@mindspring.com

PurpleCookie said...

Amazing work~~~
Purple is my favorite color!
purplepurplecookie@yahoo.com

m m said...

I've been a huge fan of Hine's since first seeing her work on flickr! Her THBG videos are the best.

My favorite color is red.

kraken said...

I've been trying to pounce on one of your camera cases on your etsy site for a long time but keep missing them. They are the coolest camera cases ever and you plushes and videos are amazing!

HandMade Goods said...

hine is so amazingly talented! i am always impressed by what she does next.

nicki [at] reflectionchildren [dot] com

greetingarts said...

Wow. "Amazing" doesn't even begin to cover it! Thanks for the chance to win a Hine original, I think one in pink and chocolate brown would be perfect for me. Off to see more of her things now...!

Melissa Crowe said...

Oh, me, me! My favorite color is turquoise. I like it with brown or gray.

melissa.crowe@umpi.edu

chelle said...

Wow! Absolutely Amazing!

Lil Knitter said...

OMG! How amazing! Hine is so creative..such awesome talent. My camera would be so happy to have a camera case. Any case of Hine's a treasure! :)

Tami @ Lemon Tree Tales said...

Thanks for featuring Hine's work. The first time that I saw her camera camera cases I thought they were adorable. The little figurines with their own scenes are even more fantastic! Great stuff!

On the off chance that I'm the lucky winner, I like aqua/turquoise and olive/lime greens. :-)

Kari said...

I'm with Tami, when I first saw the cases I thought they were adorable - but those girls are even CUTER! Haha!

I love purples - from dark violet to lavender, they all make me feel special!

Stephanie said...

I came across these cases recently and fell in love with them. So cute! All her stuff is!

Allison Currie said...

My friend Gwen is Hine's young sister-in-law, and she sent me this, so glad she did because I got to see such great felt art!

Unknown said...

Hine's stuff is truly inspiring.

notmiranda@gmail.com

blueribbon said...

Aak! I love Hine's stuff! I just added your etsy shop to my faves!

Blueribbon

Meghan said...

Hine's work is truly amazing--thanks for bringing it to my attention!

Anonymous said...

Oh! I am so in love with her work now. I'd love to win a super-cool camera case in orange and deep purple. Lovely.

Thanks for the chance!

Unknown said...

Hine, I love your stuff! I've been a fan ever since I saw your pics on Flickr. I'd love to win a camera case.

layla8314@yahoo.com

Linda said...

Oh I love her work!! Thanks for the giveaway. Pink and green are my fav.
Robin
cokelush at gmail...

Chesh said...

My camera needs clothes. LOL! Please sign me up. I love the colors green and dark blue together. Thanks!!

angelleslament @ gmail.com

Rebekah (monkeygirlsmama) said...

These are some of the cutest things. I can honestly say I've never seen anything like them. How neat! That being said, I'd love to enter you giveaway. If I won I'd be thrilled with any color combo, but my personal top picks would be lime green and purple.

Thanks!!

RebekahC
littleminx at cox dot net

sherri s. said...

Such amazing talent! Hine's work is awesome (kawaii!!!).

Bethany Kellen of bunnypicnic said...

i've been watching hine on flickr so i was excited to see this! love it all
i'm so inspired

mustard yellow, lime green

StaceySpins said...

Holy cow! That camera case is full of awesomesauce!!!

I'm really into brown and blue right now but red and orange are cool too!

staceyrothrock at yahoo dot com

MessyMama said...

What a fun giveaway! I'd love to have a case in bright red and turquoise, those two colors together seem to inspire and energize me so much that I decided to redo my craft room in that scheme.

Maya Mirsky said...

I'd love to win...come on, web karma...

Anonymous said...

Your work is amazing! I'd love to win the camera case (yellow and purple are my favorite colours!)

kateheathcote at hotmail dot com

méri said...

Lovely work! Red and black is great!

Danica said...

This is amasing. Why are they all sold!? I wish to buy these! Not only are they so detailed but they have this wonderful quirky sense of humor.

arinellen at gmail dot com

dropstitch said...

Ooooh! I favourited a lovely brown camera case with orange and turquoise bits on Hine's flickr a while ago. I would love love love to win a camera case in those sorts of colour!. Thanks for the chance!

lauradonald80@yahoo.co.uk

Gayle said...

Love them all. My fav colors are fushia and lime green. The brighter the better.

Honnoriaof)at)yahoo(dot)com

Treasuresofjoy said...

I would love a camera case. My store bought one is sew uncrafty!

finallyiamnoone said...

oh, ohohooooh!
i've been admiring Hine's work i found on flickr for some time, and the camera cases are just wonderful.

i am really into photography myself, i have eight cameras now, mostly old toy cameras, and some of them weren't lucky enough to come with a case.
As the winter is coming, i'm really afraid that they're going to get cold, and Hine's camera cases look like a really cosy solution^^
i like most of the colour combinations, though i think a case in vivid colours would really put a smile on my face during greyish autumn days...

finallyiamnoone@gmail.com

http://flickr.com/photos/finallyiamnoone/

caniche vagabundo said...

So great, so good, so funny, so sweet!
I love Hine's work and it was a wonderful surprise to see it here with a great interview!

(by the way, I love all colors [-oº] !!!!!)

teresapr@gmail.com

Ansley Bleu said...

Ooh, this work is soooo adorable!

Lizzie said...

Oh me oh my! I think this is so fabulous, the combination of photography and crafty plushy things! And so adorable too...

Anyways, I'll cut to the chase. I love pastel olive greens and greys and yellows and browns! basically all colors.

lizzie1219[at]gmail[dot]com

luluvision said...

oh my! I've been a fan of Hine's camera cases (and of course her other stuff, how can you not??) for some time! I love bright colors like orange and lime green also pink and burgundy. Man, if I win one of the cases, any color would be great!

Lisa
lulu {AT} thebunnylog {DOT} com

Trina said...

Your work is just amazing!
My favorite is the squid!
To cute with the iron!
Whoever wins the camera case will be oh so lucky!

Love One World Zero said...

Great work! I love it all it is so hard to pick favorites. I'd love the chance to win a camera case, I'm a photo taking freak! Brights colors make me happy!

loveoneworldzero@gmail.com

Nic said...

Hine's work is awesome !
I would love a chance to win one of her amazing camera cases too. I like lime green and aqua.

Mollie said...

Hine = the cutest felt creations ever

Camera cases, sculpture, music videos...it's all good!

molliejohanson [at] gmail [dot] com

tamdoll said...

I adore Hine, so I'm throwing my name into the pot here.
Thanks!
Tammy
tamdoll.at.comcast.net

Melanie said...

Those are adorable!! I wish I was that talented.

plaidtoaster at gmail

Belinda said...

What a great interview! And those creations are adorable! Such talent!

Adding my name to the draw: b@immortalised.net :)

Laura A. said...

Adorable. Original. Whimsical and fabulous! That's what I think of your work. My fave colours right now are brown and blue!
Best of luck and thanks.

Veronica said...

Oh my goodness, the cuteness! I really like red and aqua these days, or brown and aqua. Pretty much anything + aqua. :)

vmachak over at gmail dot com

Mary said...

Awesome work!

rothyx said...

great interview! I personally would be honoured to receive a handmade camera case, in a classic black and grey colour scheme. (rothyx at gmail dot com)

cheers!

iHanna said...

inspiration! love the wee ones, especially the slugs!

Dk's Wife said...

I love everything you do! Oh my goodness. A camera case in blue and brown would be awesome :)

Mila said...

LOVE the stuff!!! SUGOI!!

my contct info: milalulu1@gmail.com

Morgan said...

So cute! I love the camera cases!

Aneesah said...

Such amazing cuteness & creativity! <3 Currently loving blue/grey/white. :D aneesahsatriya@gmail.com , although I'm usually unlucky with these kind of things... :P

Bonney said...

These are so great! I love pink and brown together!

Jennifer said...

What wonderful creations! I love them all. And what a great give-away. I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to colors. I think my favorite color combo right now is chocolate brown and either lime green or aqua. The case is adorable!

lollipopkids5@gmail.com

primdollie said...

wow what amazing work and detail I just love Hine's work thanks for the great interview!! I esp love the little creatures and the camera camera cases are wonderful!! I love the colors pink and lime green combo or lime green and purple!! thanks for the fun! Hugs Linda

Jenny Jen said...

I live Hine's work. I bought one of her camera cases for my husband last year for Xmas and it arrived very late...so late that when i emailed her about it not arriving, she sent me another one! I got to chose between the two to give to my husband on Xmas day and I returned the other. Now that I bought another camera....I would love another for myself! Love her video work as well as her plush items!

CopperScaleDragon said...

I have not seen your work before but I love what I am seeing! I am going to have to find your video's and watch them as well! I love the fact that you taught yourself from information found on the net.

As a home educator who used the internet extensively in my son's education, this is just one more thing for me to quote as example for others. My son has gone on to college now (art school actually, studying game art design) but I still network with other home education families and I will be sure to point them to your blog and this interview.

Colors? My favorite colors are bright red and black but I really love just about any well chosen combination of bright, pure color. This is what you seem to use a lot, so I would probably be happy with any you put together.

copperscaledragon@yahoo.com

Jess said...

Those are amazingly adorable!

Colors: black/grey or dark green.

Debbie said...

Thank you for posting this interview, even with all the gasping..lol. I love her designs and you definitely need to find a publisher! I found out about her "word of mouth" and have been to the web-site but don't understand Japanese.

Wehaf said...

I love everything! You are incredibly talented, and extra awesome for working with TMBG.

I think a great color combo would be grey + green.

urchiken at gmail dot com

Mom2Da'Gorgeouses said...

Oh gosh, I was just blog hopping and found this! Those are absolutely amazing!

I think pink and brown would be a great color combination.

Thanks for the chance to win.

Mal said...

that is sooo adorable! I love the music video and the plushies!

P and P said...

I too have a naked camera. I like blue and green.

Ben, Ericka, Julian, Molly and Chloe said...

ohhh....i showed my little camera this case and i swear it smiled! so sweet and fuzzy.

Marsha said...

I'm a fan of earth tones: browns, forest greens, deep blues, purples, grays.

Beth said...

Whee! Orange is my favorite color.

Amy Grant, Stella Dot, and Yma said...

This is really wonderful and inspiring work.

Zaina said...

I love my oricoh, and my little boy loves watching that video. I want one of those iPhone cases! don't have an iPhone yet, but my mother-in-law does...

ljm said...

The camera cases are awesome...I want one!

MB said...

Cool stuff. I'm a stay at home mom of one dd. I homeschool her and love to take pictures. I ALWAYS have my camera with me. The dd grown up with one in her face all the time. I think it'd be neat to have this bag. Thanks.

Maitreya said...

Love everything this artist does!

Unknown said...

Oh man, I just started taking a photography class and my camera is currently stored in a HUGE ugly bag. :-( Definitely looking into her stuff! :-)

直子 said...

す、すごいコメントの数!そして全部アルファベットーーーー!って、当たり前ですね。笑
ムッシュバーコードさんに、思わず興奮!キャー私の家にもいるわぁって、、。
英語、、一生懸命読んだけどやっぱ頭の悪い私でわ、理解できぬとこもありつつ、人形展出展おめでとです!見に行けたらどんなにステキかしら?! 特ダネ人形キュートー!祖国日本でもいつか展示やってください!勿論お手伝いしますよー。

grace said...

wow I love all of this stuff! wish i could make stuff like that, especially the plush in the first picture!
i like this idea of a black case with blue accents or blue with brown, though these bags are so cute i;m sure any colour combination would look awesome!

http://angel.paprepieces.org/photo

Deb said...

Lovely work, very inspirational. Anything with red would by my choice.

Deborah

deborah.manser@yahoo.co.uk

Soulful Artisan said...

Your artwork is amazing! Such talent and detail! I would be honored to win and own one of your cases if selected! My color choices would be many..choose one and surprise me...
Turquoise & Choc. Brown
Choc Brown& Turquoise or light blue
Lime Green & Purple
Light pink & Choc. Brown
Purple & Turquoise
Thanks so much! Becky at www.soulfulartisan.typepad.com

1daisedcupcake said...

Hine, you are wayyy too talented!! I love your felted people and creatures, a crafty squid?!? What crafter wouldn't love to have eight arms instead of two? Seriously! Keep up the great work!! :-D Also my favorite color combo would be chocolate brown with light lime. And the camera cases are also genius - much better then the old tube sock my camera's been subjected to. :-)
snugasabug25@sbcglobal.net

Susan said...

Your work is simply amazing, Hine, and I am in awe of your attention to detail.

Someone will be very lucky to win a camera case. If I should luck out, lime green and bright blue would be my choices. Thanks for the opportunity and I really enjoyed seeing your works of art.

pinkfeffers at yahoo dot com

Jeckabee said...

Such unique and beautiful works, and attention to detail! My camera would love a cozy home I love bright greens and contrasting colors, but really any combo works. Thank you

Deepa said...

Beautiful work!

deeparnirmal at yahoo dot com

Ashley Poulsen said...

I Love your camera cases. I love orange and mustardy yellow. And red. :) contact me at my blog. marriedtojimhalpert.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Hine is a absolute inspiration for me and i really love the music video, it is something i think a lot of plush/animationist would love to do!

oh my fave colours is bluish green and white.

jocelan@cutesypootoys.com

Whitney said...

LOOOVE IT!! So sweet. Reminds me of my time in japan with my Hello Kitty camera in one head. 35 mm in the oher and in each pocket a fun disposible that you can only get there. So sweet I would love to win!

BrendaLea, the Prpldy said...

Hine's work is awesome...the detail is so wonderful and her imagination is outstanding.

My digital camera would love to have a home in one of her camera cases.

Thanks for the chance to win one.

BrendaLea, the Prpldy said...

Ooops, for got to leave my favorite colors......Purple and lime green.....
and my e-mail is: prpldy@comcast.net

Hannah said...

I am massively in love with these camera cases, and I was just so recently gifted with a beautiful digital camera - it needs something pretty to protect it! My favorite colors are vermilion red and spring green right now!

I keep a blog myself, so if you wanted to look at what sort of photography your camera case would be involved with:
http://lifeonthedoublepoint.blogspot.com

hannaht@iastate.edu

Unknown said...

Hine, your stuff is incredible. Thanks for doing the interview -- I didn't know you had other work (like a blog and art site!) Cool! Right now I love the combination of blue and green (with a few yellow accents). I'll keep watching your work!

mary jane said...

Wow, the billionth comment! Hine is a lucky talent! Lucky for the world.I like all the colors, but green and another green with anything else is nice.

charleneanderson said...

This is absolutely adorable. And my husband is a professional photographer. I think I need to win. Grin.

Anonymous said...

Wow - I've seen and loved your camera cases, but your felted sculptures are truly amazing and inspiring. Thanks so much for this interview!

Sara said...

Beautiful work and so inspiring! Thank you so much for sharing.

lorena said...

i love it! i so wanna win, but then again who doesn't, hehe. my camera would so love to snuggle in one of your cases in orange colors. thanks much for the opportunity! :)

Sylvia Masuda said...

i'm a long-time fan of TMBG ... and of photography. oranges and yellows and greens are my favorite.

tenku muchly :)

beautiful work!

Judy Grubbs said...

Your work is amazing. I love green and yellow

bayith said...

WOW! Your designs & work are great! I "stumbled upon" your blog & giveaway and am SO glad I did. I've enjoyed reading all the comments, too. Hats off to you, Hine
btw..pink & orange are my fav combination :)

*Carol* said...

What a fun giveaway. I also love the squid plushes. In fact all of the pictured pieces are so charming!

I like lilac and brown together, or any color combo that strikes your fancy.

carol(at)vonkries(dot)com

Samy St Clair said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sarah said...

I love all your squids and octopuses! (Especially th "bachelor" squid, he is hilarious). At the moment my camera is being kept in an old sock, and I think it would appreciate a new case:)
(I really like red+ light blue together)

Dodo Castagna said...

light blue is my fav color, but i luv your work just as much! even more!!!!

DodoNillaNAnna@Yahoo.com

erin said...

oh my goodness! i'm in love!! that photographer doll and the camera cases are just to die for (i'm a photographer). beautiful work.

erin@erinvegaphotography.com

erin said...

oops! forgot to add that my fav colors are blue, green, and brown!

erin@erinvegaphotography.com

Emma said...

Oh, wow. WOW! I wasn't aware of Hine's work before and now I'm really excited about it!

I'm also excited that I didn't miss my chance to enter this drawing. I'd love ANY colors on something this cute! :)

F said...

The cases are so cute! I think the colors light blue, blue, black, and white would look great on a case.

summerwishez@gmail.com

thetinylittlegirl said...

fantastic interview!

orange and blue is one of my fave colour combos!

The Peppermint Tree said...

I am such a big fan I think I found my favorite piece the little black ant on Flickr and went to etsy and they were all sold. She is sooo talented I would love to have a camera case. I hope I'm not too late:)

Jenny Citino said...

I love the (often over-used) pink and brown combo. the case rocks!

Nicola said...

You've inspired me to pick up my needles and wool! Turquoise and rust are my colours right now...